Tuesday 16 March 2010

Bryan Griffiths jury is out

The jury has retired to consider its verdict, reports the BBC here.

Someone calling him/herself "bobbyb" has added the following comment on an earlier post about this trial. Can't say I agree with the sentiments expressed, but it's interesting to get a view from inside the courtroom:
Was in court today to hear Judges summing up and self defense was part of her oration, the jury had five questions to consider, a sort of flow chart, 1, if no, Not guilty, if yes goto 2, and again till last one and if that no, not guilty or yes guilty, Jury out at 14:15, sent home 16:15.
As for the fear Bryan did impart to the independent witnesses was that he was shot at and was a bit worried when he saw the landrover enter the airfield all this before the incident and the prosecution accept now that Bryan was shot at, as the Police did a reconstruction with their Helicopter and proved that what Bryan said he saw was right, I don't think they did it for Bryan's benefit. As for Violence on Hunts, in my experiance it has always come from the Hunt never the other way round, if anyone can prove it, by showing prosecutions please do, whereas Hunt Supporters have been Prosecuted, also I have seen foxes run through a large flock of sheep and the sheep haven't lifted their heads, but as soon as they hear the dogs, they scatter, so what harms sheep more dogs or foxes and if it wasn't for the sports shooters supporting the hunts the hunts will die.


Vicky said...

Right. All the violence on hunts is from the huners. So I didn't see an unarmed man have his skull broken by anti's when I was out hunting then?
Hunting in it's modern form is LEGAL. When will these iditos get it through their heads that they can't ban people riding through the countryside after dogs on a trail. It's all misplaced class fascism. Of course all those rish toffs hunting are supported by all those rich toffs shooting. Poppycock! Most hunters and shooters are ordinary people. Just coz we dress up smart and can speak english. GRRRRRRRRRRR. Yes sheep run from dogs but they are used to dogs from the sheepdogs. Hounds don't eat their lambs. Foxes do. Farmers would not ask hunts across their land if hey didn't get some benefit. Hunts shoot their excess foxes, pick up their fallen stock and give hem a nice day out on horseback.
Why don't all you anti's go an deal with real cruelty on battery farms, pet shops and cosmetics labs?
James, sorry for being so angry today but I'm feeling my lifestyle choices are constantly being attacked by these people. No other minority would have to take this constant abuse. It's no wonder occasionaly we country folk lash out!But even then we don't deserve to die.

Sooty said...

Vicky enjoy your comments although on opposite side of fence but for sure a lot of folk like myself who have lived in countyside all their life are anti hunting even if they do not cause trouble for hunts and in my case it is nothing to do with toffs which I think is a awful word,I am quite happy that a lot of what are descibed as toffs are really nice people.As in all things a wide range of people for and against things but it seems to suit hunts to see it as town agaist country,definitely untrue in our area of countryside.

Vicky said...

Sooty, I like you :-) We are different but alike. And you share the name of my old cat! I was grumpy this morning, I wasn't in the mood for certain antagonistic posters. I am feeling more olerant of all opinions now!

Anonymous said...

Probably not the best idea tresspassing on a private airfield. The deceased failed to execute extreme care / caution whilst in a dangerous environment. If someone stood in from of you in a carpark threatening you yes i think you would drive at them to get away. Who gives you thr right to kill animals?? even if they are considered a pest. If you ask me the hunter simply become the hunted not nice when the tables are turned is it??!!!??

James Marchington said...

Nice to see you getting along, Sooty & Vicky. I agree, one thing that's in short supply is tolerance. It seems these days everyone feels entitled to have an instant opinion on how others live, and then try to force them to follow the 'norm'. And this in a country that 'celebrates diversity'!

I do think the old townie v country argument is a dead end. Even in the country, people grow up in a very different way to how they did 50 or 100 years ago. And if we make town-bred people feel unwelcome, our days are certainly numbered.

Sooty said...

Thank you Vicky very nicely put we can easily over react for a while and when on James blog at least no harm done.Yes James you are so right about town people coming to the countryside would think our area has a large number and seem to get on very well they often seem to almost run lots of things which sometimes draws critisism but lots of us think good of them or some things may fold.

Vicky said...

This is going to go a bit off topic but I've long felt that not everyone who comes into the country from a town is a townie, niether are all those bred in the country really country people! My own family hail from Liverpool, but never felt comfortable there. I don't think people in rural areas really care where incomers come from, but they don't like incomers who try to change everything! I'm sure everyone knows people who move to a village then compain about the lack of streetlights, the noisy hens and lambs, the tractors and the lack of takeaway deliveries! I do agree though that villages need new blood to get involved and keep all the societies going, shops open and so on. Sadly in many villages the incomers make little input to village life and merely make housing too expensive for local youngsters. Thankfully my village isn't your typical quaint chocolate box place so we don't get too many of the 'bad' incomers and welcome anyone who'll roll up their sleeves and join in! Despite what ANON may believe those who hunt, shoot and fish are normal people. They don't even mind talking to people with opposing views to them. I certainly find common ground with many 'anti's' as I never agreed with foxes being dug out from holes then released and chased again (they should either be given best (left alone) or if they are a known problem fox, eg a lamb killer, then dispated wih a bullet). I also find the shooting of huge bags of pheasant repellant and would have stern words with anyone who shot a woodcock and didn't plan to turn it into a delicious feast!
ANON asks what I wound do in my car if threatened. Yes I would try and drive off, but I would avoid mowing down the protagonists! You ask what right I have to kill animals but, like it or not we do have the right to kill animals in this country. Some are controlled as pests, some killed for food. Sometimes people enjoy either pest control or harvesting food and this is where I suspect those opposed to the killing of animals struggle. Few people oppose rentokil putting out rat bait boxes or cockroach traps as that is simply work, simply pest control. But a man paying for the enjoyment of stalking a deer that is damaging an important forest habitat and will make a healthy meal to boot is an evil, bloodthirsty hunter. I also often read reports where anti hunt groups say hunting is still going on becasue they still see red coated men on horses following dogs; some fail to understand that even a drag hunt will look like this! A good trail hunt should be indistinguishable to the field from a true fox hunt (though it is hard to acheive the unpredictability of live quarry except in bloodhounding)and dressing up smartly doesn't make someone a bad person does it?
I'm off to do some work now then this afternoon rain my dog and scare some pigeons off the oil seed rape!

bobbyb said...

In reply to Vicky, name the unarmed( why that category?)person, never have I seen a report or Trial of a Anti being before any court for Violence in the Hunting Field, its always been the other way round, the most that Anti's have been charged with is Public Order Offenses and 9 times out of 10 when taken to Court are found not Guilty. The Monitors are on the Ground and in the Air because the Police have other important work to do, that is except the Wild Life Officers, Warwickshire Police's is the exception, he only sits in his Office awaiting, a total waste of Taxpayers money, he did liaise but only with the Hunt, never anyone else and I hope he loses his job after this. We the Anti Killing Brigade have no problem with People enjoying the Countryside either on Horse back or on foot, but the CA and the MFHA have all stated there opposition to the Hunting Act and before the Act came into force made public statements saying they will carry on Hunting in the Old Way, hence the need for Hunts to be Monitored, there are still Hunts out there who are defying the Law purposely and until the Hunts get it into their heads that this is unacceptable behavior the Hunts will still be Monitored, I used to be the quarry for a local drag hunt, too old now and the riders still enjoyed themselves, because they were constantly on the move and not hanging around as Fox hunts do a lot of the time, I say enjoy yourselves by all means, dress how you want, BUT do not kill anything, just needs a change of mind set.bobbyb.

James Marchington said...

bobbyb, you may be a soppy hippy with daft ideas about living in harmony with god's creatures la la la, and good luck to you, but I've seen the other type of animal rights extremist and they are vicious thugs who get their kicks out of hurting people in the name of the innocent defenceless ones.

The only other place I've encountered the same mind-set is in some particularly nasty mercenaries who commited vile acts in the name of defending innocent civilians.

This is a psychosis that deserves further study; society should find and treat these people before they do harm.

bobbyb said...

Im not a "soppy Hippy" just a long time foe of the killing of Animals for FUN, I was a an active SAB in the late 60's and 70's and I have never ever seen the sort of conduct from SAB's you mention and I dont go around with rose coloured glasses either, I have been whipped, rode down and beaten up by Heavies always more than one, as I can look after myself one to one and then fleet of foot and never once have I threatened Violence to anyone in fact the tactic then was dont retaliate just get on with what you are there to do, Ive had spades whack me, walking sticks and fists thrown, we even had our cars windows smashed and tyers let down with people in the them, all filmed and the Police doing nothing, except in one incident where I was set upon, thrown in a ditch and stamped on the perpetrator and his cronies were charged and given bounding over orders and he had to pay me monies. if you want his name I will e-mail you it.

James Marchington said...

Well, things did move on a bit. I was hanging around groups of sabs in the 80s-90s. Mostly decent people who'd been fed a very twisted idea of what foxhunting was all about - they honestly believed they were up against a bunch of sadists who enjoyed seeing animals hurt.

LACS and the rest fed the useful idiots a constant stream of what they wanted to hear - they're still doing it now on their ridiculous 'image of the day' - picture after picture of a dead animal supposedly suffering cruelty - and preaching hate against the individuals involved.

It was far from one-sided. The hunt followers and staff I encountered were mostly unmitigated twats who considered the sabs to be so far beneath them socially as to be irrelevant. The cops didn't endear themselves to me much either, and I was pushed in a ditch more than once by them with a sneer of 'no photos'.

The Hunting Act was never about the welfare of foxes - they're worse off now. It was all about giving certain arrogant idiots the metaphorical kicking they richly deserved, in revenge for Thatcher's breaking of the miners' strike.

About the only thing it's good for is prosecuting poachers with lurchers, and there are better ways of dealing with that problem too.

In my view, reform is badly needed. The current law is a joke and just sets people against one another, with sometimes tragic results.

A proper law would look into what actually happens, rather than the myths peddled by LACS, Animal Aid and the rest, and then define acceptable and unacceptable behaviour. Done in conjunction with the hunts, this wouldn't need to be policed by vigilantes; the hunts would be proud to uphold high standards.

And, yes, I am expecting you to snort derisively at that one!

Sooty said...

Hi James well certtainly a diverse set of opinions feel that I fit somewhere in the middle.The bit I don't understand is that Bullbaiting,I think even Bearbaiting,Cockfighting all outlawed as too cruel,all usually the domain of what I could only describe as working class and yet fox hunting allowed.In our area less foxes by a colossal amount,in fact haven't seen a fox for a year or two when I would see one at least a month since hunting banned surely the most efficient controller of foxes is the car and except on shoots do not think control is needed,the exception being perhaps where ewes lambed outside but most ewes seem to lamb inside today.

Meconopsis said...

Sooty in our area we Lamb inside and outside the huge worry for us is Badgers. We do not have any foxes as in Scotland we can still hunt with a full pack of hounds and all foxes are now shot when flushed. The hunt get the chase and we get to shoot them.

This is a law that works and Fox kills are huge sometimes 30 per day !!

In fact I have people pay me to get them on a fox shoot.

The Badgers however are a real problem.


You are the ones who pick a fight and when you get a scratch run to the police.

Here in Scotland you would not get the chance to use your phone let alone a camera I think the English hunts have been to soft on these Sabs.

Remember now you can not use any film.