tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8009643355982117276.post7047370135063988464..comments2023-11-18T20:46:14.848+00:00Comments on James Marchington: Can we work with birders?James Marchingtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08109578008088776428noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8009643355982117276.post-78689435934526945672009-11-07T18:06:21.972+00:002009-11-07T18:06:21.972+00:00I would just like to thank Alan for joining in her...I would just like to thank Alan for joining in here. Sensible comments from the other side from a guy with an open mind.<br /><br />AndyMeconopsishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02517633816539650621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8009643355982117276.post-58943162181663918672009-11-06T13:33:20.567+00:002009-11-06T13:33:20.567+00:00I suspect that what we now define as 'wildlife...I suspect that what we now define as 'wildlife crime' is probably lower now than it's ever been - it's just that we've changed our definitions and outlook, and people are now monitoring, reporting and counting. That's not to say any crime is acceptable, just that it's not all doom and gloom.<br /><br />Alan, I think you're being a bit unrealistic. First, prey numbers are certainly not the only factor, and it's not some magical natural balance that sorts itself out if left alone. Ask the warden of a ternery how he'd feel about leaving the foxes to find their natural balance.<br /><br />It goes without saying that concentrating food in one place will attract animals and birds to feed on it: landfill sites, chicken farms, grain stores, etc. (Incidentally captive breeding and release doesn't apply for grouse).<br /><br />If I run a free-range chicken farm how is that so different from releasing pheasants in a wood? And is it so wrong if I then need to apply a degree of pest/predator control to protect my investment?<br /><br />Nature reserves are a wonderful thing, and I love to visit them. But I don't think we can realistically apply the same principles to farming (food security will become a major issue in years to come) and other human activity - we need a sliding scale which accepts that what we do cannot always be first and foremost to the benefit of a natural world which has, let's face it, been shaped by man into what it is already.James Marchingtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08109578008088776428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8009643355982117276.post-24615162469628711632009-11-06T09:03:23.239+00:002009-11-06T09:03:23.239+00:00I am well aware most buirders aren't twitchers...I am well aware most buirders aren't twitchers. My point was most shooters aren't bird of prey murderers but some sections of the birding community think we are.vickynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8009643355982117276.post-35196504909388620332009-11-05T19:02:13.272+00:002009-11-05T19:02:13.272+00:00If I may answer some of the points as they have be...If I may answer some of the points as they have been raised as I see them?<br /><br />The AM Nat - I think most birders recognise the role played by game management in maintaining habitat suitable for game birds and that there are spin off benefits for other species.<br /><br />Murphyfish - No you won't please all the people all of the time but moving closer to pleasing most of them most of the time is a good thing surely?<br /><br />Vicky - Firstly the money comes from us all in my view. If we want biodeversity then we should expect to support it via central govt funding or through our contribution to the EU in the same way as farmers currently get Stewardship payments for environmental schemes.<br />Diversionary feeding, the point your missing is that the 'ecosystem' can support Hen Harriers it's the profits of commercial game moors that can't. Predators numbers are controlled naturally by the abundance and availability of prey (humans are an exception to this) it is the artifically high numbers of grouse/pheasant/partridge maintained through captive breeding and release that allow predator populations to continue to increase in specific areas until they run out of prey.<br />Oh and no I dont read shooting mags as such but I do spend time reading news output online from teh likes of James and the SGA and GWCT (or whatever name they have this week ;)). By the way most birders arent twitchers and most twitchers wouldnt be caught dead near a nest they tend to concentrate on migrants in migration hotspots such as coastal headlands. However there are 'bad eggs' on both sides, most birders for example get upset by a minority who have little fieldcraft and resort to constant tape luring to see a bird rather than using patience. No we will never ever prevent all wildlife crime but the current level is too high.Alan Tilmouthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10201030182018368937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8009643355982117276.post-27219808587700951322009-11-05T15:17:57.291+00:002009-11-05T15:17:57.291+00:00Ok, but where does the money come from? There is m...Ok, but where does the money come from? There is much in his 'manifesto' about free advertising space for cmpaigns, diversionary feeding etc. Good, but will the RSPB/BTO etc help fund such moves? Diversionary feeding always worries me; is it right to feed wildlife if an ecosystem can't support it? Ideally harrier numbers would rise only to level where there was sill a suitable surplus of grouse without diversionary feeding. I also feel there MUST be a maximum density of birds of prey in sensitive areas; grouse moors perhaps, but also black cock lekking grounds.One rare bird should not suffer at the hands of another! There must be a way keepers/farmers/nature reserve managers can reduce or control Bird of prey numbers IF NEEDS BE; perhaps trapping and relocation or egg pricking? Obviously this would need tight regulation, but is practical.<br /><br />I also slighty resent the suggestion that 'we' aren't anti illegal bird of prey killing anyway; does he read shooting mags? Sadly it won't matter what red ape, codes of conduct, star rating etc are introduced. Some bad apples will still kill birds of prey, just as some twitchers will disturb nests in their fervour to tick another off the list. Both sides have bed eggs.vickynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8009643355982117276.post-80589204658586930682009-11-05T13:51:51.359+00:002009-11-05T13:51:51.359+00:00I find myself agreeing with 'amateur naturalis...I find myself agreeing with 'amateur naturalist', in that this is an excellent starting point, butI tend to feel some trepidation when ever these two groups come together as there are always some members (on both sides) who feel that their ‘way’ is the only way and to hell with giving ground so that we can all move forward improving the outdoors for all, not just a selfish few who feel that they are ‘owed’ the rights to the countryside and all it’s wonders.murphyfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03382223977388631947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8009643355982117276.post-1831939133024300022009-11-05T10:52:49.909+00:002009-11-05T10:52:49.909+00:00A sensible, two-way discussion between the parties...A sensible, two-way discussion between the parties involved based on a genuine desire to reach compromise and a respect for the other's point of view and lifestyle? Surely not?!<br /><br />I think it's an excellent starting point and one we can't afford to be too precious about; after all, raising standards and trying to achieve the pinnacle of symbiosis between nature and our sport should be our first priority.<br /><br />Having said all that, birders will have to get off their high horses and recognise the vital role we play in providing the very habitats which help them enjoy their hobby.<br /><br />I for one see no reason for a distinction between us, and proudly see myself as both a birder, naturalist and shooter, as I'm sure many others do.The Amateur Naturalisthttp://www.theamateurnaturalistblog.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com